Future club group rides on Zwift?

Over the last 5 or 6 weeks we've had club group rides on Zwift twice a week. It looks like it will be a while before we can return to group rides on the road, so although you may be able to ride outside by yourself Zwift is probably the best we can do for group rides for the moment.

I want to review what we've been doing and see can we improve. I'm looking for comments and suggestions, from those who have joined one or more of the Zwift rides and from those who'd like to but arrangements don't suit them. Please reply below with your comments.

Here's a few questions I'd like answered:

Timing: We currently schedule for Wednesday 1.05pm and Sunday 11.05am. Would different days/times suit you better?

Duration: We currently schedule about 60 minutes on Wednesday and about 90 minutes on Sunday. Would longer/shorter suit you better?

Climbing: We currently keep Wednesday climbing to a minimum, with more climbing on the Sunday spin. Would you like this changed?

Difficulty: Are the spins too hard or too easy for you? Would you rather they were split into 2 or more groups?

Crowds: It is possible to reduce the number of other riders around us by using non-scheduled Zwift maps, or to hide all other riders completely by using a Zwift meetup option. Would you prefer us to have the Zwift roads to ourselves during club group rides, or to see other riders?

Number: Would you like more group rides scheduled each week?

Talk: Is Discord working ok for you? Would you like any changes?

Any other suggestions for improvements?

Hi Barry,
First of all, thanks for all the work you’ve done in organising the spins the past couple of weeks. I know I’ve found them great fun and good training. I won’t be on proper roads fully until June 8th when the boundary extends again (hopefully..) so will be there on spins a good bit of the time if they do continue.
Here’s my thoughts on a the current arrangements.
Timing: Wednesdays suit me personally and I know fit into many peoples training schedules if they have easier midweek rides. Sundays are a bit later than ideal to be honest as a lot of people are probably used to spins leaving between 9-10 so if one thing could change it’d be that, but then again, its not like the schedule is hectic anyway.
Duration: 1 hour on a Wednesday suits perfect for most I’d imagine, fits in during school/work lunch and is right duration for an easy recovery spin or a hard midweek workout. For Sundays, a decent number of people tend to ride on a bit longer anyway so may be no harm alternating between 90mins and 2hrs week to week but not a biggy for most.
Climbing: I think the format of doing flat on Wednesday then hilly on Sunday works well and wouldn’t change it.
Difficulty: Not sure if this affects people, as with the No Drop feature you shouldn’t have to go any harder than desired. Guess people mightn’t know about trainer difficulty so, if they want an easier day on say this Sunday when the spin is up Alpe du Zwift, one could just bring the bar down in settings and the gradient sent to the trainer would be less.
Crowds: Personally I don’t mind seeing other people on course but understand in can get pretty busy and difficult to perceive the size/length of the group. Think leaving at say 13:05 instead of 13:00 helps reduce a bit of chaos at the start.
Number: Think the current amount of spins works well and wouldn’t change it.
Talk: Discord works great I think but the odd whirlwind turbo trainer in the background can get a bit annoying…
Thanks again, Andrew

Hi Barry,

Thank you so much for setting up these group spins. Great fun and a great way to keep the club spin going.

I’d love an earlier Sunday spin as an option. Maybe we could have two, an additional one around 9am, or even a little earlier?

I like the new feature where other riders are hidden in the Meet-Up. Much easier to see everyone.

Happy to set up any additional spins if you need an assistant!

Hi Barry

Thanks a million for organising and running these spins - I am really enjoying them, having something to look forward to and the social element.

Weds are perfect at lunch time and probably suit most people.

Difficulty levels are spot on - I usually do another bit on Sundays to make it up to 2hours but that might not suit everyone.

If people want an earlier Sunday I wouldn’t be against that but my neighbours mightn’t appreciate the early turbo noise so personally 10am would be early enough for me but I could set up indoors if needs be. ( I think they already think I’m nuts!)

The variety of routes is good and you are mixing the flat/hills nicely:)

Thanks!
Lou

I would like to see spins organized without the grouping option enabled, as it effectively nullifies any effort put in because I wont be any quicker regardless. It also makes the chosen route irrelevant beyond the amount of time it takes to complete for the ride leader. That's not to say I want them to be harder.. just that my efforts counts for something.

I understand that there are different levels of abilities, so we could break it into separate groups within the same meetup, or organize separate meetups, along familiar lines. Red/Orange/Yellow/White and then stick with our groups as we do outdoors. Hiding riders outside the meetup would make it also a lot easier for groups to regroup manually should it be required.

On Discord we could also potentially create different channels for different rides which would allow for easier conversation than a single very large group. This could be applied to both voice and text channels and if adopted work later in the year or over the winter to also schedule outside rides for any respective ability level. It's more agile than the forum and easier to populate/join than What's App groups.

Just my 2 cents.

Regards,
Henning

Hi Barry,

Just to echo what others have already said, many thanks for all the effort in setting up the group rides, gathering peoples opinions and all the detailed information you have posted.

I've been prowling around solo on Zwift for a while, it's good to join up with a group!

I'm absolutely fine with how things are currently set up but happy to accommodate any changes where agreed.

Discord working great, I'd used it with a few other Zwift FB groups and found it really makes all the difference!

A suggestion, for background noise cancellation there are a few options in the app but by far the most effective is to use 'push to talk' instead of the default 'voice activity' which switches your channel on for all sorts of background turbulence (gear changes, heavy breathing...) Its in: User settings / App settings / voice on the mobile, You just press the big button when you want to speak otherwise your mic is muted (apologies if this has already been mentioned!)

Regarding the 'Keep Everyone Together' no-drop functionality, I suspect that this doesn't work when the ride organiser 'leader' isn't riding with the group, i.e. the 'Orwell Wheelers' user. For a start there is no beacon to follow which helps set a pace in the group and keep people together visually. On the last ride, Wed 6th at the Richmond circuit I dropped back to see if there would be any rubber-band assistance but I just kept dropping back and had to crush it to get back on! I've posed in the Zwift forums to see if I can get an 'official' answer, I'll let you know if I do, or feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong. The other possibility that I have seen for issues with this and other functions is when meet-up participants use different version of the program; so the recommendation is always let Zwift perform the update!

Thanks again and looking forward to the next spin.

Colin

Barry thanks a million, with all your help, I feel that I have graduated from Zwifers’ Montessori school in double quick time.

Two rides are good for me, as it motivates me not to miss them, more might be easier to drop out off.

Very happy with the durations and climbing.

Timings are good for me. But an earlier start on Sunday, 9:00 am, might be a bit better.

I would like to have a go with only the Orwell crew on the roads
I could understand if the faster people would like two groups.


Cheers
Leonard

Hi Barry,

Thanks for trailblazing the Group Rides on Zwift and setting up the Discord server and the Live Streaming. It's good infrastructure for future Winters and stormy Springs.

We have a small, yet diverse group of Zwifters, with some race focused and other leisure focused. So keeping everyone happy is going to be hard. So if we can agree on some common wants it will be good.

The Wednesday spin is not for me, with work and Intervals on Tuesday and Thursday. So I offer no opinion on it, as a Wednesday evening spin is not something I would attend.

Timing
An earlier Sunday spin would be nice.
The 11:05 option does offer the chance to get in a structured workout beforehand, but I think most training plans use Sundays for the long steady spin.

Duration
The 90 mins on Sunday, would be better if it was earlier. As with a shower it's almost a 13:00 finish, which might interfere with some people's dinner. I know people can drops earlier.
If a group wants to continue on after that (an After Party) they can, and have the facility of Discord to select the turns and re-group.

Climbing & Difficulty
I've grouped these together.
With the Keep Everyone Together feature, Difficulty is non-existent.
If there's lots of climbing on the route, I can set my Trainer Difficulty lower to be able to just spin the legs at a decent cadence.
Being a slower rider on these spins, my Strava Climbing PRs get smashed by the "Keep Everyone Together" feature. It's not really a massive issue for me, but it might be for someone who set a Segment Goal. It's still nice to do a solo rider and see the PR on a climb segment on Strava.

Crowds
Other riders onscreen don't matter with the Keep Everyone Together feature, nor do they matter if you're solo riding catching them at a fast rate, as they'll be dispensed with in short order.
It also eliminates the possibility of a late joiner catching us, they don't stand much of a chance really.
But maybe a faster rider from somewhere in cyberspace would like to race us.
It's probably easier on people's graphics cards to get rid of other riders.

Number
The Sunday one is the only one I would attend.
Until the Club's feature is rolled out, I reckon it would be too much work for you to create extra meetups with the OW account.

Talk
I think people are too reserved on the old Discord, so I have not experienced an excess of banter. EDIT: I have now experienced an excess of Banter.
I got awful annoyed one day when someone left their mic on with their fan and squeeky drive train.
Plus if there's no banter, I'd much rather watch/listen to something on my phone, but the voice chat lowers the volume of other apps.

Other Suggestions
I like what you're doing by varying the routes, so the attendees get route badges.
If there was a Group Workout on Tuesday and Thursday, I would attend evening spins. They're a bit hacky to implement. People can do different workouts too. But I think some workouts require too much focus to be group chatting, or listening to anything other than Dutch EDM playlists.

We could do a Club Ramp test.

The Zwift Community Team Ireland ...Team... do a 3wkg and a 2wkg group spin, I'm not sure if they use the Keep Everyone Together feature on those spins. If we offered those spins they would dovetail with Henning's opinion. If we're hitting the 100 rider cap on Meetups, we can spilt them.

There's so many community events, that we could piggy back on too.

We could target the 25 laps of the Volcano badge on one group spin, it'll be boring to look at though, but great to rack up exp and drops for better equipment.

Firstly Barry I would like to thank you for the amount of work that you have put into the organising of this for the Club - from the research initially into the options etc on the various platforms to the weekly work in organising the spins on Sunday and Wednesday.

Timing: The Wednesday spin is not an option for me at the moment as it is too awkward with work - but please don’t change it as it gives me something to aim towards. The Sunday spin would suit better if it was on earlier in the way that the club spins were on pre lock down - it would encourage me to get up a bit earlier

Duration: The Sunday spin would be better if it was longer in time, again to replicate what the normal road spins - 2 - 2.5 hours would be good

Climbing: Rather than having an emphasis on climbing on Sunday would be it an option to alternate between climbing and distance routes

Difficulty: The current set up is good - it allows people to go as hard as you want or as easy as you want, you are competing against yourself - if you want to push hard you can, you just will not pull away from the rest of the group but you are still getting a tough work out, if you want to take it easy and take advantage of the “keep together” option, you are only fooling yourself

Crowds: It isn’t something that bothers me, when we are on the road there is always the possibility of other riders - the current setup is more realistic

Number: The current number of 2 in the week is enough from a club side, we are all capable of organising rides etc in smaller group spins

Talk: This is good and I understand that some people don’t like the open mic aspect but it does add to the distraction - the idea of turning on and off the mic to talk removes the spontaneous comments

Barry, thank you for organising these. I feel they have helped to sustain club camaraderie at this time. In a nutshell it suits me as it is, and earlier Sunday start is fine also. No need to read my entire message :)

Timing: Suits me as it is. Wednesday 1.05pm is a lunchtime recovery spin for me. I usually do an earlier session on Sunday before 11.05am, so I am happy to start earlier or continue as is.

Duration: Suits me as it is. If people would prefer them to be longer that's fine too. We can drop out at any stage if required.

Climbing: Suits me as it is.

Difficulty: Suits me as it is. I would probably continue doing any harder sessions separately.

Crowds: This is not really a concern for me. On most spins we seem to end up with one or two people who have to "ride with" the group rather than join the meetup. I would not like them to be excluded.

Number: Suits me as it is. It would probably not suit me to join any additional spins.

Talk: I like it. I am in favour of "push to talk" to eliminate turbo and background noises, but everyone's environment and circumstance is different so I wouldn't want to make it a rule.

I have the sense that some people don't say much. I hope they don't feel uncomfortable (or bored listening to the likes of me). Maybe we could go around the names in the group to give everyone an opportunity if they wish to take it?

Best Regards,
Dave

First up, huge thanks Barry for organising these spins.It's definitely makin the lockdown more bearable. I'm happy with the setup, and here are my comments.

Timing: Current timing works well although would prefer 9.30 or 10.00 on Sun and 12.30 on Wed.

Duration: 60 mins on Wed is the most I can do, due to work. Would prefer 2+ hrs on Sun, to go with an earlier start.

Climbing: Doesn't really affect me as much as others as I don't have a smart trainer, although I do try to match cadence accordingly. In general for me the more climbing the better.

Difficulty: The no-drop means this doesn't really matter. Judgin by today, when I didn't have the benefit of the no-drop, they wouldn't want to be any harder, as I was 5 mins off the back :-)

Crowds: I prefer the crowds!

Number: I would like to see 1 more ride - perhaps in the morning around 8am or in the evening around 6pm? Perhaps with a bit of variety thrown in such as, remove the no-drop, and perhaps a few sprints or (short) max efforts thrown in. Happy to help with this.

Talk: Happy with Discord - it does make a big difference to have the banter. There used to be a lot of background noise, but people seem to have got better about that. In general we should use push-to-talk or just mute when not talking, for best results.

Suggestions: Nothing else major. To help level the playing field between smart trainer and non, it might be a good idea to have smart trainer users call their cadence every now and again on hills so us dumb trainer folks can try to match it. Other than that, perhaps some in-event challenges, although can't think of anything suitable at the moment.

Thanks to all who took the time and thought to provide these responses. Some excellent suggestions and ideas. A quick summary of the themes coming out:

• Wednesday lunchtime spins are ok as they are, although perhaps shift 15 or 20 minutes earlier.


• A strong preference for Sunday spins to be earlier, and longer.


• Hiding other riders has mixed opinions. An important side effect of hiding them would be also hiding riders who missed the meetup start and are trying to ride with the group.


• Some support for more spin options during the week, perhaps early morning or late evening. Also dedicated workout spins, and/or faster (red group?) training spins without the no-drop feature.


• There's a suggestion to run a group spin to do 25 laps of the Volcano circuit. The Volcano circuit is the most efficient way to get your Zwift level up, which gives you access to more stuff in the Zwift world.


• The main suggestion for Discord is to reduce background noise coming from trainers, dogs, family etc. This may be something that people will become better at naturally, but perhaps we should remind everyone to keep noise down.


• Another suggestion for Discord is make the conversation more inclusive, and to encourage more of those on the channel to take an active part. I'm not sure how best to do this, but it seems like a good objective.


• Mixed opinions on using the no-drop feature. It should be noted that using no-drop does not affect your power data, so it won't affect any training efforts you decide to do. However, it will affect your PR times in Zwift segments. No-drop will slow you down if you're pushing hard at the front, or will speed you up if you're relaxing at the back.

Based on the opinions and suggestions, I propose to leave Wednesday spins as they are and to change Sunday spins to start an hour earlier, at 10.05am, and last 2 hours or a bit more.

We can add any other spin (regularly or one-off) if any interested person offers to choose the route, post a notice, and collect names. The Orwell Zwift account can be used to schedule the meetup and to issue invites. Contact me if you want to organise one.

More than one Orwell meetup can be organised for the same time, so for example a no-no-drop meetup could be run at the same time as our regular no-drop Sunday spin if someone wants to do that. Separate Discord channels can be created easily to allow each meetup to have their own conversations.

I could run a meetup to do 25 laps of the Volcano circuit for people who want to increase their Zwift level. 25 laps is about 100km and about 500m climbing and will get you a quite a few thousand XP if you do it in one ride (not sure exactly how many XP - maybe 10,000?). We could run this as a once-off in the next week or so if there's demand for it. Let me know if you'd be interested.

I propose to leave other riders visible during our meetups, unless our groups grow very large or there are specific reasons to use it.

One last comment: The Zwift Clubs feature is in development and will be available at some point in the future, but its release schedule and usefulness to us are not apparent yet. When it does become available we'll obviously use it in whatever way is best for the club.

If you have any comments on any of this please reply here or contact me on
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